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Marketing is in the Middle: Chris Cummings

The fourth interview for Marketing is in the Middle is with Chris Cummings. I’ve been reading his blog for quite a while – Product Management Meets Pop culture. Not only does he have a cool blog, he’s got an interesting gig as the Director of Product Management of Games and stuff at Lycos’ Gamesville. Chris provides clarity with every post by trying to look at the product marketing and management delima through a pop culture lens – movies, comics, and other pop culture ephemera. Not only does it resonate with a gaming, tv watching and comic liking geek – it provides everyday examples which are easily digestible and fun.

I’m glad Chris was willing to share his take with y’all. So here are his insights:

What marketing roles have you had and in what markets?

My first professional job was working in the marketing communications office of a college database company called CMG, which soon started spinning out different web-based startups. That was back in 1997. I’ve been in online ever since. The majority of my time has been in online games, and I’ve recently branched out into web publishing.

When you look at your career in marketing, what activities have you found most interesting/challenging?

The most interesting and challenging has been defining and explaining what it is, exactly, that I do. Over the years, more than one person (including multiple CEOs) have noted that: a) they’re not entirely sure how I do what I do but b) I always get the job done, and bring real value to the business.

On the one hand, that’s a big compliment. On the other, it made me a little nervous: I never wanted to be a magician or to live in a black box!

Based on your experience what activities do you think get the most return?

I’m really focused on digital, so I’d say making sure your website or app has customer-focused content and interactive features that speak to the needs of your customers or prospective customers is paramount. Part of that “interactivity” should be providing clear, and plentiful, ways for them to reach you. So many businesses still rely on the “Contact Us” or “About” page to drive leads, it’s mind-boggling. But then again, almost half of all small businesses don’t have a digital presence at all so there’s clearly plenty of room for improvement!

What do you feel is the most important component of a successful marketing gig?

Understanding the problems of the market you’re focusing on. If you don’t get that, then you basically just have a really cool tech demo and not a business. That applies to everything, even online games. What problems does Gamesville.com solve? Part of it’s psychological, part of it’s pure advertising. Gamesville provides a place for people to come together, create community, and encourage each other playing games while also pulling together a valuable demographic that advertisers want to reach in an environment uniquely suited to getting their messages across.

How have you seen organizations change in the last 3-5 years to better support the needs of product marketers, product managers and communications teams?

I think we’re seeing more strategic integration on the metrics that drive our businesses, and that’s helping everyone including the roles you mention… providing they’re doing a good job. Not everything is measurable online, but many key things are. Focusing on those key metrics helps everyone understand our joint success and failure, and you’re individual role in it.

If you could design the perfect corporate environment for a marketer to be successful what would that be?

If I was going to design the perfect corporate environment, we’d have a product organization that reports directly into the CEO along with the other C-level functions. The Chief Product Officer would be responsible for leading the product while working with the other members of the senior team to make sure finance tracks key metrics (not just costs!), that our marketing is effective, sales is selling, and engineering is making the magic happen. Team work among the senior team is critical, including productive conflict, but everyone needs to respect and understand who’s driving which parts of the business — and which “key drivers” are really key.

How far is this from reality?

I think we’re getting closer and closer to this every day. Thanks to web analytics, there’s so much information available — and anyone with the right credentials can see it, at any point, including the CEO. Step one was getting everyone to see the same data. Step two is getting everyone to agree on which metrics actually matter!

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I think the Chief Product Officer (CPO) will definitely be an emerging role in the market as Chris suggests. I also think that Chief Marketing Officers and CPO’s will need a key technology role to support them in the goal of improved processes and metrics. Organizations are going to not only need to invest in developing products to be successful, but also leverage tools and content to drive efficiencies and increase ROI of marketing programs/investments.

Twitter: chriscumming01
Blog: Product Management Meets Pop Culture (http://christophercummings.com/)

January 31, 2011 by Jon Gatrell

Marketing is in the Middle: Marty Thompson

The number 3 participant in this second round of Marketing is in the Middle is Marty Thompson. So Marty is a guy that I’ve been lucky enough to get insights from him for over a decade. He just one of those B2B marketing consultants whose insights help provide clarity for a business.

So here is Marty’s take:

What marketing roles have you had and in what markets?

I’ve worked primarily in marketing and product marketing management within several arenas, including CRM, eCommerce, Knowledge Management.

When you look at your career in marketing, what activities have you found most interesting/challenging?

I wouldn’t say it relates to activities, per se. I’ve gotten the most satisfaction from working with companies that are at a crossroads. Whether they are a start up, a well known company that is in acquisition mode, or one that has made the jump into uncharted waters, they tend to be willing to completely rethink their marketing efforts. This environment is not for the thin skinned, but it can be exhilarating, and marketers can see their efforts play into major successes.

Based on your experience what activities do you think get the most return?

Believe it or not, sound email marketing tactics are not going away. Tweeking SEO, creating sound content, are some of the most basic foundational activities that still matter. Anyone who says direct mail is dead better understand where their company exists in the food chain. Activity driven ROI depends on understanding what works. It’s that simple. But what I am also seeing out their is a willingness, and a slow evolution, of how organizations are using social as a springboard to finally transform their organization internally. 99% of all the advice out their regarding social media, whether it relates to policy, internal processes, readiness, etc, are missing the real point of what I think is happening when companies embrace social. The ones that end up using it well are the ones that have transformed their employees. The frightening aspect of this is that organizations are achieving various levels of success without any understanding of this internal transformation process. …and of course failures happen along the way too – learn from it and improve.

What do you feel is the most important component of a successful marketing gig?

The most successful marketers understand that they are one part of a very large team. I tell junior marketers to interview a prospective employer very critically. Don’t waste your time with a Bill Lumbergh. The precursor to being successful in any marketing role is to be sure that it is a good fit. Be sure the executive team “gets” you. Are they excited about what they are doing? Does it show? They need to understand what you think the challenges for the organization are…now, and in the future. You should be in agreement with your understanding of the marketplace, your goods or services, etc. They need to understand that failure is a part of this business, and that marketers in particular are in a position to learn from them. All the best technologies out there will not guarantee success. Talk to everyone on the team, and also try to chat with others in the company. Customer support, product management, anyone you will be interacting with in a marketing capacity. Read their tweets, their blogs, anything to better understand them.

How have you seen organizations change in the last 3-5 years to better support the needs of product marketers, product managers and communications teams?

A couple of things come to mind. first off, in at least two of my previous gigs, the CMO understood the value of the pragmatic model, and had embraced it as part of their raison d’etre. The second change is a bit tougher to find, even in the over saturated “social” environment. And that is a fundamental understanding that social technologies are on the one hand yet another channel, but more importantly, can be transformational. I like to call it socialized commerce, but of course that is nothing but a lovely generalization.

If you could design the perfect corporate environment for a marketer to be successful what would that be?

One of the most valuable things any marketer can do is spend time with their sales team. Go out in the field with them. Walk a mile in their moccasins. Believe it or not, they really want you to help them be more successful. And they spend more time talking with customers and prospects, more than most marketers do now. Spend time with your customers, even the ones who are unhappy. Get out there. If you are working in a company that has embraced their customers, using social technologies, and is attempting to build out a vibrant community, by all means be in the thick of it. And don’t try so hard that you stop listening.

How far is this from reality?

I would hope that almost every marketer out there is working in an environment that is getting close to this. If there is a major gap, it may fall back on the notion that they may be fighting an uphill battle. In that case, stop thinking about tactics and technologies. Start having the tough conversations with your CMO.

So what’s next?

I hope that this year we’ll see much of the dialog about social media move away from the same conversations we all had about CRM, marketing automation, and other things. I believe the real tsunami behind social technology is how for some organizations it was the internal transformational catalyst to change the way people think, how they interact, how they work together.

We’ll also see a huge shift to further understand the behavior of the consumer. How we make the leap from intent, whether implied or implicit, to accurately predicting behavior, this will be hotly pursued. However, we will as marketers come up against barriers, and perhaps rightly so. With the ability to dial in personalized data, from Facebook to device fingerprinting, many people are becoming increasingly sensitive to their behavior profiles. If your are under 20 years old, you are more likely to text than use email. Even though our world is becoming increasingly interconnected, we are beginning to see a backlash.

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A strategic approach to marketing and engagement requires a holistic examination of your process, touch points and customer transactions. Email is still a relevant part of the mix for B2B marketing. Yup, Marty is spot on with email and engagement. Thanks man.

Web: Two Bananas Marketing

Twitter: @freighter

January 28, 2011 by Jon Gatrell

Marketing is in the Middle: Jay Baer

This is the second one and I have really been impressed with the different approaches to the questions from the participants so far. I’m also encouraged by many of the answers I’m seeing in the responses on how businesses developing more strategic marketing organizations in many sectors.

Jay Baer was kind enough to participate in the Marketing is in the Middle series. I’m super thankful that since I’ve been reading Jay’s blog for several years now (Convince and Convert). It was one of those random word of mouth things… Dave Daniels tuned me in to Jay who then was in Phoenix and who now is in Indiana doing consulting work all over the place. I think Jay just might live in airports.

If you haven’t read/ran into Jay yet, he is real pragmatic in his approach – actionable strategies, tools and real-world use cases on how you can increase your operational effectiveness with social processes. Jay just co-authored a book which spoke to 7 critical shifts businesses just need to make when thinking socially.

So here’s Jay’s take on the questions:
What marketing roles have you had and in what markets?

I started as a PR intern in Phoenix. I was then a political campaign manager in Arizona for a few years, before moving to the client side as a marketer for Waste Management, Inc. in AZ and Southern California. I then was briefly the spokesman for a state agency before getting involved in online marketing in 1994. I was VP/Marketing at Internet Direct (the world’s first hosting company); co-founder at azfamily.com; Senior Director at visitalk.com; and founder of digital agency Mighty Interactive – all of those in Phoenix. Most recently in 2008 I started my Convince & Convert social strategy consultancy. I now live in Bloomington, Indiana but have clients everywhere.

When you look at your career in marketing, what activities have you found most interesting/challenging?

Adoption curves repeat themselves. The questions we’re asking and answering about social media today are very similar to those we dealt with regarding email a few years ago, and websites a few years before that. We’ve seen this movie before.

Based on your experience what activities do you think get the most return?
Anything that combines direct communication, opt-in, and relevancy. Email and search are the most noteworthy examples, and I hope social will continue to progress so that we can have the same potential successes.

What do you feel is the most important component of a successful marketing gig?
Cultural support for change, and a belief that the customer experience is paramount.

How have you seen organizations change in the last 3-5 years to better support the needs of product marketers, product managers and communications teams?
Much smarter about getting marketing involved earlier in the process, combined with a recognition that marketing is about more than a launch.

If you could design the perfect corporate environment for a marketer to be successful what would that be?

Allowing marketing to be as close as possible to product and customer support makes for the best environment. I also prefer it when companies embrace a spirit of testing and trial. Three years ago, suggesting that social would be a meaningful part of the marketing plan was crazy talk for most companies. And look at it now. Marketing must be fluid, because customer dynamics and expectations are fluid.

How far is this from reality?

Fortunately, it’s reality today in some companies, although they tend to be mid-market. Enough resources to try stuff, but unburdened by corporate process.

So what’s next?

I really, really hope we stop (at least for this year) talking about the hot new thing, and instead turn our attention to doing the current things better. Social media optimization and integration would be a good start. Social is an ingredient, not an entree.

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I’ve been using the ingredient quote for a while now. Social media for B2B marketing isn’t a pure play effort for most businesses, it requires an integrated and managed approach across the business – support, marketing, pr… Social processes should make your business more efficient and improve your customer’s experience.

Again, I am most appreciative of Jay taking the time to participate.

Blog: Convince and Convert

Twitter:@ jaybaer

Book: The NOW Revolution: 7 Shifts to Make Your Business Faster, Smarter & More Social

January 26, 2011 by Jon Gatrell

Marketing is in the Middle: Mike Troiano

It’s time for input from other people again here at SR. So I decide to dust off a series I start a while back call Marketing is in the Middle. The last time I did this I got some really good responses from a host of folks:

I’m kicking off this round with Mike Troiano. So who’s MJ? I’ve just recently started reading his stuff in last in 90 days or so and he has a straightforward approach to most everything he posts. For an introduction to his efforts, I would take a look at his how to sell post. Mike Troiano is currently a Principal at Holland-Mark in Boston. His blog, Scalable Intimacy, also provides a lens into agencies as well, not just marketing insights. Mike has had a bunch of leadership roles across multiple functional groups throughout his career. I suspect his insight into multiple groups was key to him being the founding CEO of Ogilvy & Mather Interactive.

So here’s Mike’s take on Marketing Being in the Middle:

What marketing roles have you had and in what markets?

I was a brand guy at McCann, an interactive guy at Ogilvy, a mobile guy at m-Qube, and a social guy at Holland-Mark.

When you look at your career in marketing, what activities have you found most interesting/challenging?

There’s something I find interesting at the intersection of marketing and new technology, so that’s pretty much where I’ve focused my career.

Based on your experience what activities do you think get the most return?
That’s a pretty broad question, and I don’t think there’s a single tactical answer that applies in every case. Speaking generally… I believe in the power of brands, and the common thread across all of my digital marketing work is that it was about leveraging new media to seed, cultivate and harvest relationships.

What do you feel is the most important component of a successful marketing gig?

I’d have to say quality of execution. I think the age of “easy” marketing is over, and the marketing that works today invariably has a lot of moving parts and details to get right coordinate. Managing those details effectively is what it’s all about.

How have you seen organizations change in the last 3-5 years to better support the needs of product marketers, product managers and communications teams?

No, I really haven’t. I think most brands are still trying to figure out what do with the social stuff, for example. Very few have determined how to re-align themselves to take full advantage of that opportunity. I’m sure it will happen, but with notable exceptions, I don’t think it has yet.

If you could design the perfect corporate environment for a marketer to be successful what would that be?

Great marketing organizations have CEO’s that support them, leaders with the courage to take risks, ground troops who focus on quality of execution, systems to measure results and iterate, and passion for real business results.

How far is this from reality?

Pretty far. I think most marketing organizations have 1 or 2 of those things, really good ones have 3 or 4, and only the rock star teams have them all.

So what’s next?

I think what’s next is companies starting to make the structural, systemic and procedural changes necessary to take advantage of social media. It’s one thing to hire some college kid to tweet on behalf your brand, for example… quite another to inform your product development and other marketing priorities with the insights you’re gleaning on an ongoing basis through Twitter. Sometimes I think most marketing people are still trying to make social media go away, trying to either outsource it or put it in a box at the margin of the business. I think this year we’ll start to see companies really start to view the social stuff as a mechanism to connect with the external reality, and taking full advantage of that potential will require more fundamental changes.

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Blog: Scalable Intimacy

Twitter: @miketrap

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Many thanks for Mike’s willingness to kick off this series with some clarity from the field!!

January 25, 2011 by Jon Gatrell